Review: 9x02 - "Legacy" [SPOILERS]

For all your Season 9 discussions on The Chosen, because Jet Wolf is anal and likes to keep things tidy. Here we'll talk about the latest episodes and people will theorize for JW's amusement. (Warning: may contain spoilers for any and all previous events in either Buffy or The Chosen.)

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Postby Akeela » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:17 pm

Akeela wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:So who remembers Jesse?

Seems t’me that his name comes up once more near the end. When the Scoobies were remembering their dead ….. Jenny, Joyce, Jesse .................. But then, maybe its just me. Never was much good at letting go.
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Postby rmsgrey » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:30 am

Akeela wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:So who remembers Jesse?

Seems t’me that his name comes up once more near the end. When the Scoobies were remembering their dead ….. Jenny, Joyce, Jesse .................. But then, maybe its just me. Never was much good at letting go.


Still, with all the "remember when"s shared between Willow and Xander over the years, you'd think their former best friend would get a mention... Did he not qualify for membership in the "I hate Cordelia Chase" society, for instance?
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Postby LGold » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:44 am

I think he was originally going to talk to Xander in CWDP...

But yeah. I agree that Jesse never being mentioned again irritated me a little.
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Postby Akeela » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:00 pm

Akeela wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Akeela wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:So who remembers Jesse?

Seems t’me that his name comes up once more near the end. When the Scoobies were remembering their dead ….. Jenny, Joyce, Jesse .................. But then, maybe its just me. Never was much good at letting go.
Still, with all the "remember when"s shared between Willow and Xander over the years, you'd think their former best friend would get a mention... Did he not qualify for membership in the "I hate Cordelia Chase" society, for instance?
Don't think "hate Cordelia" was the operative phrase with him. His reaction to her was more on a hormonal level.
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Postby DGCatAniSiri » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:10 pm

To my knowledge, the only acknowledgment of Jesse's existance with the Scoobies has been in the conversation on the memorial in 8x02.

And, I'd like to momentarily derail the conversation and politely ask Akeela to please refrain from posting your replies inside the quote brackets. It's somewhat jarring for me.
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Postby Akeela » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:12 am

Hummmmm, our Jet's 8x02, that could very well be it.
That's th' thing for we of th' broad canon
The universes of Jet and Joss are one
Better fit here than in my theology
And we don't burn our heretics
Well not so far, anyway
As for the future
I can't promise
What is
t'Be

It's quite possible that DGCatAniSiri or some other worthy said something relevant to remembrances in general and poor ol' Jesse in particular.
Something that prompted the statement found above, but readers should be able to ascertain exactly what easily enough.
Certainly without me falling into my obsessive-compulsive passion for putting everything into boxes

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((O.K., So it's a futile effort, I know that right well))
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((((In addition to th' folly, of course))))
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Re: Review: 9x02 - "Legacy" [SPOILERS]

Postby Jessie » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:20 pm

"I understand," assured Giles, his tone more gentle. "However Dr. Lombardi was quite clear that a latticework of interpersonal connections would be vital to your recovery."

An expression of concern crossed Faith's face. "I thought Shrink Lady gave me the green light? No Psycho II, you know?" The aggression mounted once more. "She said that. She said it. I mean I'm not— Crap, am I just gonna—?"

Leaning forward, Giles calmly cut through Faith's mounting anxiety. "Your grief recovery," he clarified.


I've noticed that Faith is absolutely terrified of losing her mind again. It's interesting to see her character be so self aware of her own sanity and how she fears going crazy again. There was another Chosen episode that referenced this. The one where she's talking to Xander about her mother I think. She mentioned being afraid of reverting back to her old self or something like that. It must be weird to live a life thinking there's a chance you could just snap.

I have always wondered if the show indicated/confirmed that Faith was at one point medically ill and in need of legit crazy pills, or if she just went down the wrong path and made a lot of bad decisions. I think it's an important detail to note for her character. Maybe it has already been clarified and I just missed it. Y'all have any thoughts?
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Re: Review: 9x02 - "Legacy" [SPOILERS]

Postby Neet » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:34 am

I never saw Faith as having a diagnosable mental illness. She enjoys violence, yes, and she's somewhat lacking in healthy coping mechanisms, but that doesn't equal illness. It can easily be seen as a reaction to her childhood/general lack of a support network alongside her natural personality. Besides, the way she killed Judith and the way she killed in season three at different - she made a conscious decision to kill Judith as retribution for how Judith hurt her. I think she was perfectly in control when she did that. It wasn't her losing it in the heat of the moment.

That is an interesting quote though - it's Faith putting her most violent behaviour as something outside of her, something she can't necessarily control but she can be healed from. It reminds me of Xena, where a large part of Xena's arc was accepting that she couldn't just stop fighting, because being a warrior with all the violence and bloodshed that entails is part of her nature. It came up in Angel the show as well, when Angel became darker in season two even though he had his soul. I think Faith has a ways to go before she accepts that part of her herself is something she's not getting rid of; that thinking she can be healed is more likely to lead to it popping out at the worst time again.
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Re: Review: 9x02 - "Legacy" [SPOILERS]

Postby Jessie » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:11 pm

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject, Neet. I agree with your assessment regarding Faith having control when she killed Judith. In fact, I'm not convinced Faith believes she did the wrong thing. I know her character is in a dark place right now, but I believe it has more to do with the death of Hazel, and possibly nothing to do with the fact that she murdered Judith. It's some of the others that seem to bring up the wrongfulness of it.

In regards to Faith being clinically diagnosed, I agree with you as well. At least, I used to. Reading through this episode and coming across the quote above got me thinking back to all the references made about her sanity (from the show and the Chosen). For instance, in Angel season 4, Wesley goes on a rant about Faith always being "sick".

There's also a few times in the show where Faith's character "sees" herself stabbing people (Willow in "Who Are You", and Angel in "Sancuary"). Is that a glimpse of her being bozonkerz? Is it just to add a little bit of drama to the episode? Or is it simply open for interpretation? I'm still torn with what to think about it.

Thanks again for replying!
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Re: Review: 9x02 - "Legacy" [SPOILERS]

Postby rmsgrey » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:23 am

It's been a long time since I last watched/read any Buffy, but my general impression of Faith is that she built up this badass bad girl persona for herself, realised she went too far, decided she was a monster, and then couldn't see any way to be forgiven (by herself or anyone else).

It's the fact she hates herself for being that monster that makes me believe she's got nothing fundamentally wrong with her - though she obviously has some pretty major superficial problems in late S3.
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