Who was most crucial to Buffy (on the TV show)?

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Postby Strawberry » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:59 pm

Sorry if I'm rehashing old ground here, but this thread really made me think!

I guess for me it would be Giles and Dawn, because although I agree with everything Kerkevik's argument for Willow, Giles and Dawn are outside of the 'friend' category, and therefore the ones who can say when they think she's wrong etc, particularly in Gile's case. Dawn was really influential for the reasons given by doppelgangler07. The change that Dawn created in Buffy is perhaps the biggest and strongest of the changes, really because it's sudden, while Gile's influence and care is more gradual. But yeah, Giles and Dawn get my vote.

That said, if you took away even one of the characters who Buffy met and spoke to and was friends with, I think you'd have an entirely character and show. It's the combination of them all that creates the overall effect.
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Postby doppelgangler07 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:17 am

"Of course, we all know who the most influential figure in Buffy's development is, don't we? Or is that in danger of breaking the fourth wall? "

Who now?
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Postby tessarin » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:53 am

I think thematically what differs Buffy from other Slayers is that for the most part she maintained her connections to a life outside slaying and it is this that meant she survived so long.

So here I have to go with those that say that Xander is the most influential. Rewatch Welcome to the Hellmouth and the Harvest and see how it's his overhearing and refusal to back out that provides the social anchor and tipping point for Buffy. Willow is equally important in this, the pair provide the connection to real life that saves Buffy. Look at the fate of Kendra and Faith who both lack this connection/friendship. So I go with Xander by a tiny sliver as he finds out and

Just beyond these two I would say that Giles and Joyce are the next most important. Giles is the father figure and Joyce is the constant in Buffy's life. It's hard to judge Dawn as most of the impact is fake, it's spell induced hardwiring, plus by this point I think the fundamental aspects of Buffy's character are set.

As for the vampires I actually think they're both pretty unimportant. Angel has the first romantic love thing but beyond that I think his impact is somewhat superficial.
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Postby doppelgangler07 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:57 pm

What fourth wall??? Seriously Kerkevik you're gonna hav 2 explain!
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Postby rmsgrey » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:53 am

doppelgangler07 wrote:What fourth wall??? Seriously Kerkevik you're gonna hav 2 explain!


The term derives from theatre, where a typical set represents a single room, with walls to either side of the stage, and at the back of the stage, and a missing fourth wall at the front of the stage between the actors and the audience.

"Breaking the fourth wall" is used to refer to any situation where characters display awareness of their role as characters in a work of fiction, or otherwise destroy the illusion that the fictional world they inhabit is "real".

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... FourthWall
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Postby doppelgangler07 » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:54 am

Oh that rings a bell, thanks! I actually rather enjoy moments in tv/theatre such as this...In fact I've always wanted to choreograph a dance involving text and in which the dancers speak to the crowd at some point...I still don't know which character Kerkevik is referring to :(
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Postby Neet » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:10 am

If you want to be very technical about it, the person with the most influence on Buffy's development would be Joss Whedon. I think that's who Kerkevik meant.
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Postby Kerkevik » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:32 pm

Hi,

sorry for not replying doppelganger, but I didn't get a message saying a reply had been sent to this thread, and I just haven't been checking as often as I used to. Maybe I got it into my head that the recent purge had dealt the death to it.

My absolute favourite Fourth Wall experience was when I saw the great Richard Harris in a German play, in English of course, at The National Theatre on the South Bank in London. It was called Richard II, and he was playing the part of a filthy rich man who had apparently gone mad and believed he was a mediaeval feudal lord.

He was surrounded by a whole series of sycophants, otherwise known as family and friends, who were all playing along with him while trying to get their hands on his riches.

Anyway, IIRC, around 3/4's of the way through the play Richard Harris, who was well-known as a carousing libertine, suddenly cried out, "F*** this!" He turned around and went to sit, legs dangling, on the edge of the stage.

Of course, it wasn't Richard Harris throwing a 'Hollywood strop, as I believe, even those who were familiar with the play were thinking (I was not. The only play by that name that I was aware of, was ol' Willy Shakespeare's).

It was marvellously well done, as his 'character' went back to conning all the people who believed they were taking him for a ride.

And yes, I was referring to His Joss-ness :lol:

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Postby Akeela » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:26 am

"It's hard to judge Dawn as most of the impact is fake, it's spell induced hardwiring,
plus by this point I think the fundamental aspects of Buffy's character are set."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The being called Dawn Summers is a creation, hence fake.
The memories of her, up until her sudden appearance, are fabrications, i.e. fake.
Her impact on those around her is very, very real — even after her origins became known.

I submit that all the characters in BtVS are literary creations, hence “fake.â€
Private reality is strangely significant – has been since Sunnydale and beyond.
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